Becoming the Vision Podcast Episode 10 — Duality with Nwamaka Agbo
FROM: BECOMING THE VISION PODCAST
In this episode of Becoming the Vision, hosts Dr. Chera Reid and Efrain Gutierrez sit down with Nwamaka Agbo, CEO of the Kataly Foundation and Managing Director of the Restorative Economies Fund. Agbo shares how she navigates the duality of profound personal joy and grief while leading a foundation dedicated to Black liberation and self-determination. The conversation explores how Kataly moves beyond traditional philanthropy by investing in land stewardship, challenging extractive finance models, and building "beloved community" through trust-based relationships.
Key Takeaways
Self-Determination Rooted in Liberation History: Agbo defines self-determination not just as independence, but as a practice rooted in the Black Panther Party’s Ten-Point Program—balancing immediate care (like feeding children) with long-term protection and autonomy for communities.
Land as the Basis for Sovereignty: Unlike many funders who avoid capital projects, Kataly prioritizes land acquisition for Black and brown communities. Through grantees like Shelterwood Collective, they support Indigenous-led land stewardship and fire maintenance, viewing land access as essential for food sovereignty, housing, and safety.
Healing vs. Trauma Bonding in Philanthropy: Agbo argues that traditional philanthropy often creates trauma bonds among workers and grantees. Kataly aims to be the antithesis of this by fostering deep, trusting relationships with boards and teams, allowing for genuine healing and rewiring of neural responses to institutional harm.
Parenthood as a Catalyst for Presence: Becoming a first-time parent helped Agbo detach her self-worth from productivity. She learned to hold complexity—the simultaneous experience of joy and grief—and recognize her inherent value simply through existence, rather than output.
Transforming Systems Requires Transforming Selves: Drawing on Prentis Hemphill’s work, Agbo emphasizes that systemic change begins with individual transformation. Leaders must examine their own habits and patterns to shift oppressive systems, urging other institutions to adapt these principles to their unique contexts rather than copying Kataly’s model exactly.
Full Transcript
00:00:01
>> Efrain Gutierrez
Hello, dear ones. This is Efrain.
>> Dr. Chera Reid
Hey, y'all. It's Chera, and you're listening to Becoming the Vision. This is a show about practicing the future we deserve. This is the official podcast Freedom Dreams in Philanthropy. In this podcast, we feature visionaries who embrace the tradition of freedom dreaming in service to racial justice and collective liberation. And today, we're in conversation with Nwamaka Agbo who is CEO of the Kataly Foundation and Managing Director of the Restorative Economies Fund.
00:00:39
And just to tell you a little bit about the vision of the Kataly Foundation—they're working toward building a world in which Black and brown people have the resources, power, and agency to execute their own visions for justice, well-being, and shared prosperity within their communities. We believe our fates are intertwined and ensuring self determination for communities of color is in service of our collective liberation. Powerful words. And so Nwamaka, we ask everyone the same question when they join us on the show. What's a word you're meditating on these days?
00:01:22
>> Nwamaka Agbo
I would say duality comma complexity. I ended 2024 with a lot of life lessons. A lot of life happened in a short amount of time. I welcomed a child and became a first time parent with my partner, Michelle…
>> Efrain Gutierrez
Congratulations.
>> Dr. Chera Reid
Congratulations, aww.
00:01:40
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Thank you... He's very sweet. He brings a lot of joy to my life. In the same breath, I lost my father. And so I am learning to hold the big ball of wax that is life. I'm learning to hold complexity and really resist the need that I have to go into immediate sense making, the desire to parse things out. And I tend to be a person who wants to go into immediate sense making. Want to distill what is the lesson learned that can inform how I move forward, how I grow. Or I'm a person who wants to really pick apart things and deeply understand them from the inside out. And, I am learning to come to terms with the fact that sometimes life just is, you know, as the young people say it is what it is.
And so how can I really hold the totality of an experience, the complexity of something in all of its parts and not go to a place of trying to make it all good or all bad, or all something else and just hold that this is the nature of life.
00:03:01
>> Dr. Chera Reid
It's beautiful. And I get really curious about when you say “it is what it is” and sometimes it is, like how does that travel from your knowing self into your body—such that you can hold the duality without it fully overwhelming you, overtaking you? You know, asking for a friend. [laughs]
>> Efrain Gutierrez
I can be the friend.
00:03:49
>> Nwamaka Agbo
how you just took me on a somatics therapy journey as I was checking in with my body. You know, I try to remind myself that the brain is brilliant and it's powerful, right? There's a way that I need to take a moment to pause and check-in with myself and recognize that even with all of those things, the heaviness and the lightness, that in this moment, I am safe. And I am okay. And so really being able to engage my rational brain in recognizing that I'm safe, and I'm okay, and I'm fortunate to have my immediate needs being met.
And, my internal experience in my body can still be one of tightness in the chest. It can still be tingling in the fingertips because there is still a deep spiritual connection with the grief and the heaviness of what's going on. And so that's how I try to hold it, try to really engage my brain to remind me that I'm okay, while still allowing my body to feel the tenderness of this moment and this time and that both of those things can be true, rather than the way I typically am of trying to exist in a binary of right and wrong.
>> Dr. Chera Reid
Yes, yes.
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Really trying to challenge myself to live in the gray area of both can be true and my rational brain and understanding that I'm safe and I'm okay and my needs are being met. That's what allows me to keep putting one foot in front of the other, as opposed to caving in or succumbing to the tightness of the chest and the tingles in my fingertips.
That's how I try to kind of exist in this moment; this moment in the world.
00:05:36
>> Dr. Chera Reid
Yeah, I love it. And I'm also a parent. I have two children, two boys, two Black boys, Black sons. And as a new parent, as you shared with us, and thank you for sharing that, are there things in the duality that have really shifted for you in these early days, months, this early time of being a parent? Are there things that have, you know, have really changed in that? I know for me, they certainly, they did, they have, and they continue to.
00:06:19
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Oh, there's so much that has changed. And I would say, please give me the cliff notes on raising two boys, raising two Black boys. My son has been a deep, great, humbling gift. And there's a lot that I'm learning. I think prior to parenthood, I was really clear about the ways that I liked to work, particularly in the CEO function of my role at Kataly. There was a way that I had the full reign over the twenty four hour period of a day to do what I had to do. And in this moment of being a parent, that looks very different. I'm negotiating my time different. I am figuring out how to prioritize what is of the utmost importance to me very differently than I used to in the beginning.
07:21
And so what I have found is that parenthood is inviting me into a practice of being deeply present and in the moment, and really asking me to contend with my own attachment to productivity. Even though they're all the things that I know as a Black female-bodied person navigating capitalism and our ties to productivity and labor, even inside of that, I still have attached so much of my own self worth and value to what I can produce and do for social movements and for others. And parenthood is really inviting me into sitting with it.
I too, just like this little one that I get to play with on the floor, I too get to be valued just because of the nature of my existence. I have a right to be here just because I exist and nothing else unto itself.
I think the other piece around being present is, you know, as a recovering, high functioning, hyperactive person, there's a way that my brain would allow me to both, I mean, we call it multitasking. I think I try to rationalize it in that like, you know, being able to be in the present while still planning ahead for all the things that I have to do in the future.
00:08:50
And again, this moment of not a surface level of presence, but a deep heart, mind, spirit engagement with him and with my partner and our family time just feels more sacred in a way that I don't think I've given myself permission to really acknowledge because, again, you know, as a Black woman, you know, they say you work twice as hard to get half as far. And so now I'm really challenging myself to be like, do I actually believe my own inherent value and worth inside of that.
00:09:28
>> Dr. Chera Reid
Well, I wanna offer as one also Black woman, female bodied person to another to take a pause and give yourself those flowers. If you like flowers, they could be paper mache flowers, they could be roses, both, but just to pause and allow like this beautiful creation that you and your partner have brought into the world, this beautiful life, to honor that and that there is nothing that you have to prove, to show anybody, to, you know, there's nothing, there's really nothing to do that you haven't already done and no one to be other than who you already are for your child. So you have already done a really wondrous thing in caring for this sweet, sweet human.
00:10:27
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Thank you. Wow, I wasn't, I feel like I need to pay you guys for all this grounding experience right now. This is, yeah, thank you.
>> Dr. Chera Reid
Well, with that, we really honor what you're up to and this organization. And so one of the things that we picked up on Nwamaka is, and it's no surprise in the way that you're speaking, you have a very deliberate and thoughtful and grounded way of showing up. And it shows in the way that Kataly and the Restorative Economies Fund is moving. And so one thing that we picked up that we wanted to highlight and unpack and inquire and be curious about with you is self determination. There's a very specific use of “self determination” in the Kataly Fund's language. And we read that as a deliberate word choice. We read it as something we don't hear a lot in philanthropy. And we also hear “self determination” as very much rooted in Black-led, freedom struggles. And so we wanted to ask, how did Kataly get to self determination? And could you, you know, tell us a little bit about that?
00:12:00
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Thank you for lifting up its connections to the Black freedom struggle. I would say that the word choice is very intentional. When we think about the Black Panther Party and their 10-point self determination plan for Black communities was very much about Black liberation. And what is so brilliant inside of that plan that they put together is that it is both as specific and singularly focused on feeding children in a breakfast program as it is to thinking about self defense and caring for our communities, right? And so the breadth of self determination in reflecting on our ability to care for ourselves, care for each other, as well as think about what we are caring for and protecting into the future.
00:12:57
So when the Board and I, and I love to name their names because they are amazing individuals—Regan Pritzker, Chris Olin, and Susan Pritzker—when they invited me to come be a part of co-creating Kataly with them, it was really clear that we wanted to use this foundation and the resources we're in to not just look at how do we continue on in doing philanthropy as it's been done in the past, but how are we actually thinking through transferring our assets from our endowed institution and redistributing them out into the Black and Brown communities that we know, I believe, need to have access to the resources so that they can build for themselves.
00:13:49
And part of the reason being able to build for themselves feels really important and poignant in this moment is—I'm very clear that we want the grassroots communities that we support to be able to create structures, systems and communities that sustain themselves beyond and outside of any particular administration, any one election…systems in communities and structures that will help them to weather through natural disasters. And most importantly, the ability to be able to create beloved communities where they feel safe, seen, whole, and heard. And so the ability to actually ensure that we are moving resources to communities in ways that allow them to do that, that trust their wisdom, capacity, their skill sets to identify what they need for themselves, and then their ability to create it for themselves to govern and manage it over a period of time.
00:14:54
While yes, still providing technical assistance, still identifying opportunities for capacity building, but at the end of the day, what is created really sits in the hands and is stewarded by that community. And so for us, that is why self-determination is critical and important in this moment where, on one hand, yes, continue to look to hold our elected officials and community leaders accountable through elections. And at the same time, recognize what is it that we can do for ourselves that we can sustain, that we can hold onto beyond this present moment, but into the future.
00:15:42
So that's why “self determination” for us, and that's why it's rooted again in a Black liberation politic, given the ways that we have watched Black communities continue to struggle and fight for their own autonomy and self determination inside of a land and a system and a democracy that continues to push them aside and see them as second class citizens.
00:16:04
>> Dr. Chera Reid
I love it. And I love that you lifted up the 10 points of the Black Panther Party as the grounding. This, it does provide such a framework, such an opportunity for us to have as a touchpoint and to continue to build from.
Could you give us an example of work that Kataly funds, that given self-determination and given the ways that you describe your work and what you're committed to, might look a little different or might not have been possible if our frame was something that was more I would you know—and I'll invoke Dr. King since we are close to MLK Day—thinking about the white moderate. If we were somewhere like, you know, “that was charitable, that was good.” Self determination is something different. And the rooting in Black liberation struggles and freedom struggles is something different, as so you just beautifully articulated. Can you give us an example of what that looks like?
00:17:10
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Yeah, because the fires are fresh on my mind right now, I would lift up one grantee called Shelterwood. Shelterwood Collective is an organization based in Northern California, and they are a land-based project. They're a land-based project that has brought together individuals that are also rooted in the indigenous practices and wisdom of that land and that local Indigenous community to think through how to steward this land for the benefit of all around.
And, part of why I mentioned them in this moment, given the fires in Southern California, is that part of how they're stewarding and tending to this land is by practicing fire maintenance through the Indigenous ways. And so typically in philanthropy, there has been a practice of not giving to capital-based projects, right? Instead, wanting to focus in on specific individual services or specific policies.
For us, we're actually really clear. In order for communities to be able to live self-determined lives, land is the basis for being able to create, for being able to grow food, for being able to build housing, for being able to provide shelter. And so if our Black and brown communities, those that are most vulnerable, can have access to land, then they can gather safely. And on top of that, if they are in deep relationship with the local Indigenous communities, they're also providing a moment and an opportunity for healing justice to a people who have been stripped from their land.
00:19:06
And then if they are also engaging the indigenous practices for how to steward and maintain that land, we're also healing our relationship to the environment and to the And so all of these are ways for philanthropy to question: what can we do differently here? How do we acknowledge the indigenous communities that have made it possible for us to live and thrive on The US? And not just through land acknowledgments that we do at the start of a meeting, but actually in ensuring that they are able to rematriate, repatriate their land back into their land stewardship ways.
How can philanthropy come to understand that addressing climate change is yes, about policies, but it is also about ensuring that those that are in deep relationship with the land are able to directly steward it. So those are some of the ways that we see self-determination actually playing out differently in who we fund and how we fund as an institution.
00:20:14
So I guess this is the moment where I should also be explicit about what it means for us to be a funder to an organization like Shelterwood. It means that we provided large upfront capital campaign contributions so that they could acquire the land. It means that we also provide multi-year general operating support so that they can have the operations and maintenance needed to take care of that land. It means that we are also in deep relationship with them as a funder where we will go and be on the land with them and learn from them and how they are choosing to engage and develop governance structures that are really rooted in repair and restitution with their community as opposed to punitive strategies where we kick somebody out of a community collective.
00:21:08
So for us at the Kataly Foundation we have found that being a spend out foundation has meant that it has been of the utmost importance to resource and support capital campaign projects that allow organizations to engage land-based initiatives. It means that we need to look at providing, in addition to multi-year general operating support, capital campaign contributions. It means we also provide non-extractive investments through our Restorative Economies Fund. So we can also challenge the extractive finance models and systems. So there's so many great stories I could tell about our grantees, from the Restorative Economies Fund to Mindfulness and Healing Justice and then to our Environmental Justice Resourcing Collective and even our Rapid Response grantees as well that we think are doing some great things in this moment. So yeah, those are the ways that we're really trying to embed.
00:22:08
>> Dr. Chera Reid
We love it. And something that you said earlier, Nwamaka, which is that you co, you were co, like early on in the early days of Kataly with your three board members that you named and working together. And all of the examples that you're sharing from the beginning, from the start of this conversation, it's really clear, like how much intention and how much care has been put into everything that you all are doing. And it's very strategic as well. So I don't want to make an either or speaking on duality. It's not care or strategy. I hear both really loud and clear.
00:22:57
[Promotional Break]
Hey, y'all. It's Chera. Do you work in philanthropy and nonprofits that are focused on advancing equity and justice? If you do, we really wanna hear from you about what you're struggling with lately. Do you have a question that you've been tossing and turning and maybe even losing sleep over? What holds you from freedom dreaming in your workplace?
In our upcoming episodes, we're going to humbly reflect on your questions. So send them to us at FreedomDreamsPhil [at] Gmail.com. That's FreedomDreamsPhil [at] Gmail.com. Can't wait to hear from you.
00:23:47
>> Efrain Gutierrez
Nwamaka, I feel like you are able to communicate and in many ways, I don't wanna use “translate”, but you you you just communicate all of these very complex concepts that go from economies to racial equity, to the history of The United States, to how capital works in such an easy way. It almost feels like it's irresistible because it all makes sense in a very simple way. And I'm just wondering if this is some like, how did you get there? I know it's like a very complex question, but it looks like a practice. And I wonder what did it take? Or if you see it as something that is one of your superpowers.
00:24:41
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Well, first off, thank you, Efrain. I'll take the compliment. I have heard this reflection before—my ability to hold like the 30,000 foot level as well as really digging on what's happening on the ground at 15 feet. And I think part of why I'm able to do that is, you know, coming back to how we started the conversation, being able to hold the totality of it. It is all the things all the time. And so how to be able to integrate and weave together points of information, learning—and then also even just for myself—being able to talk about it in language that is accessible, that makes sense to folks. I think, you know, I often don't refer to myself as an economist because, you know, I try to steer clear of the elasticity and the GDP and supply and demand stuff, particularly because that language doesn't actually speak to the needs in the experience of people on the ground. Right? When I think about how people come to understand the very real lived experience of the world, it is very much around, do I feel safe? Am I hungry or am I well fed? Am I sheltered or am I out on the streets? It's the very real experience of our lived day to day world and so I try to communicate and talk about the work in that way. So I'm glad that it works. I'm glad that it resonates and thank you.
00:26:21
>> Dr. Chera Reid
And I have to say this as a person who, Efrain, what you just said, people say this about me too. And Nwamaka, I experience it sometimes as a double bind. The superpower is also the thing that I've had to get really good at because of the twice as hard, half as far, half as much. And I wonder if that resonates with you as well. Sometimes the thing that you are exceptional at, we have had to overbuild, if you will, skills and qualities out of necessity.
00:27:05
>> Efrain Gutierrez
Woah, that's deep.
00:27:07
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Oh, sure. Thank you for calling me into that. It's true, right? I think one of the things I sit with as a Black woman in my role at Kataly, managing a foundation with the size and scale of resources that we've been entrusted with is that I oftentimes find that there is an expectation for me to be able to show up above and beyond the way any other foundation is doing their work because, one, you know, Black woman, you know, there's an expectation that I understand all the ins and outs of social justice work and all the expectations of us. And there's the expectation to be able to be better than any of my other white male counterparts in the field while still experiencing the daily microaggressions of being a Black woman.
00:28:01
And, I think that is the double bind, because I both do want to be a caring and kind and thoughtful and intentional leader. But sometimes I don't feel that the grace is extended to me to learn, to make mistakes, to grow and evolve the same way that it might be given to
some of my other counterparts in philanthropy. And so I think that's what can feel challenging when the bind is so tight that I want to run away and out of the field, just to be honest, right? Carrying that weight. So it's both those things, Efrain and Chera, thank you. Thank you for just kind of putting a spotlight on that.
00:28:52
>> Dr. Chera Reid
No, it's real. I mean, it's real for me. So it's sometimes for me just putting it out there and saying it out loud is just like, it's a bit of a release also to acknowledge that it can be both, as you said, the duality and the complexity of the kind of role and roles that you occupy. I know we're talking primarily about the professional and it is connected to how you are read and how each of us, how we are received in the world and in the context that we're in.
00:29:30
Which is why I also wanna bring us to beloved community.
00:29:39
>> Efrain Gutierrez
I think it connects really well.
00:29:40
>> Dr. Chera Reid
I think it connects really well too, you know, in that. I don't know. I don't have a particularly grand way of saying this. So I'm gonna say this in mixed company, knowing that our listeners are gonna be and who they are, they are our listeners. You're working really closely with white women who have wealth. And that isn't the thing that is obvious to a lot of Black and brown folks when we talk about the work of building power, the work of moving with self determination rooted in Black liberation struggles and duality complexity. You've been
co and you are in this leadership role and you all are moving in ways where you found something that is beautiful. And from where we sit appears to be just really working.
00:30:38
So can you bring us into how you are and have been building Beloved Community with the people who are closest to you in your organizational work?
00:30:52
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Oh, absolutely. I love this question. I had successfully avoided many executive director / CEO positions up until the opportunity for Kataly came along. And the opportunity for Kataly was one that I couldn't resist and one that all my mentors told me to go for, and partly, yes, it's because of the size and the scale of the resources, but then it's also because of the people that I get to work with.
And so Regan, Chris, and Susan are exceptional people to work with because they have
done and continue to do their own race, class, power, and privilege work outside of Kataly. So when I come to this work as the CEO, my role, my work is not to convince them around the worthiness or the deservedness of Black and brown communities to be centered in our mission. They have done that work. They get that. And so it means then that I get to focus on supporting our team and really implementing our mission.
00:32:06
It doesn't mean that there aren't times where we might have to have conversations, where we actually kind of reflect on the distribution of power across the organization, where we might have to seek deeper understanding around what values aligned means in terms of how we manage our investments and our grant making. But it does mean that we have the relationship and the trust to have those conversations. And it does mean that they are also very clear about supporting me in my leadership and supporting our team in their leadership and most importantly, supporting our grantees.
00:32:46
And so when you are not having to spend all the time doing case making around why you get to be in your position or feeling as though you have to defend your right to be in your position, or case making around trying to contort yourself to explain why a Black community in the South that only has a staff of five people might be ready for this land-based project, right? It just makes the work more possible. And so I think that is how we really leaned into building beloved community within Kataly. And also because my relationship with the board actually started prior to the creation of Kataly. And Crystal Hayling, who was one of the first people you interviewed, was working on a project with Crystal and Regan. And it's through those previous experiences that we were able to start developing a relationship.
00:33:45
But to your piece around beloved community or the question that you bring up, part of what I really want to name here is that you all might know, have you guys seen the memes on social media where they talk about how people created or found their bestie at work through trauma bonding over a bad work experience.
00:34:06
>> Dr. Chera Reid
Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:07
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Okay. Sorry. So the memes are hilarious. But what I would say in our conversation around beloved community, and what we're trying to do differently at Kataly is, in order to address trauma, right, you know that you actually have to confront the thing that has impacted you, and take on steps and actions that actually start to rewire your neural responses to that event.
And so at Kataly, if we can heal in community by actually giving our team a different experience of what it's like to be in relationship to a family board, by having a family board that redistributes power and trusts their leadership and their experience. If we can heal our relationship with our grantees by actually leaning into the practices of trust-based philanthropy, can start to rewire the experiences that people have with philanthropy, with us as an institution, and that actually starts to create new pathways for how they may engage in the future. And so we want to be the antithesis to trauma bonding in philanthropy or trauma bonding outward by taking the time and the space to really understand what it means to heal and be in deep relationship. Those are some of the ways that we're looking to build beloved community. And the last piece I'm going try to squeeze in know I've been talking a lot is that I deeply believe, and I think science has shown, and even Prentis Hemphill from the Embodiment Institute speaks about this in their work, In order to transform the world, we have to transform ourselves. Systems are created and made up of people who are choosing to take on daily actions. If we actually want to shift the systems that seek to hurt, harm, and oppress us, then we have to actually change our habits, our practices, and our patterns so that we can make different choices inside of those systems. And so that is also a deep part of the work around being able to be deeply accountable to—are we showing up and being the type of leader, the type of foundation that we want to be? And in doing so, can we start to transform our relationships, the groups around us, the culture, and our relationships with others, and therefore the world.
00:36:38
So I think that deep individual healing part is directly tied to healing in beloved community and transforming the world.
00:36:47
>> Dr. Chera Reid
Oh, I love that. Your willingness to hold the duality and the complexity that's required, you know, top to bottom, left to right, all the way around here. It really does come across in all of the ways that you are showing up right here, right now, and the ways that we are reading about, watching, observing Kataly move. And we really hope that our listeners will be inspired and motivated to make more moves in the direction of self-determination, in the direction of solidarity, in the direction of coalition, and as you started, to really exhibit a willingness to hold duality and complexity that our communities deserve us to be able to hold and need us to be able to hold if we're ever going to all get free. So with that, we say thank you for joining us on Becoming the Vision. It's a pleasure.
00:37:57
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Thank you so much for having me. This was a great conversation to help me return back to work after being out on leave. We welcome all the partners that want to do the deep thinking and reflection on how do we help all of us to get free in this moment. I would say my last bit is Kataly is just one way that we're experimenting with doing things. There are a myriad of ways for us to explore what philanthropy can and should be in this moment.
And so I invite people to not get hung up on a copy and paste of what we're doing at Kataly, but to rather lean into the critical questions that are facing their grantees and their communities to try to understand how they can best show up given the unique conditions of their institution and the needs of their grantees.
00:38:47
>> Dr. Chera Reid
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
00:38:57
>> Efrain Gutierrez
That's very important. Don't leave them off the hook. You can do something anywhere you are. Whatever your company, your organization is doing right now, you can do something from where you are. Thank you so much.
00:39:09
>> Nwamaka Agbo
Thank you. This has been great.
00:39:15
>> Dr. Chera Reid
I continue to be inspired to know that the leaders, the people, the humans that we have been featuring on this podcast are people that we need to be in positions of authority, right now. We really do need them to be, as Nwamaka was talking about, like, operating in their better selves with that really grounded understanding of self and of purpose. Right? And it is really heartening to have conversation after conversation with people in philanthropy who are practicing what we hypothesized some time ago would be true and is
true in this sector.
00:40:09
>> Efrain Gutierrez
Yeah. I love that. To learn more about the work we do, how to get involved, and get free, go to freedomdreamsphilanthropy.org.
Related Resources
Explore more Becoming the Vision podcast episodes
Learn more about Freedom Dreams in Philanthropy
Learn more about the Black Panther Party’s Ten-Point Program
Learn more about Prentis Hemphill and their work
Learn more about Kataly Foundation’s programs:
Explore more of Nwamaka’s Talks